I meant to add to my above post (which I can't edit):-
The main reason for stating "do not crimp solid wire or tinned wire" is that in many cases the force applied to crimp the terminal to the wire is not enough to deform the wire. Therefore the crimp does not bite into the wire & if you do a pull test on the cable assembly the wire will pull out of the crimped terminal.
Ways around this if you have to use that terminal/wire combination:-
- Use terminals with the extra set of "wings" for strain relief as this bites into the insulation & is the main "retainer" of the wire in the terminal.
- When using the tinned multi-strand wire (as I did) only lightly tin the wire, or crimp/deform the bare wire before placing the terminal on to be crimped. This then allows the terminal crimp force to bite into the wire, & lightly re-soldering afterwards provides additional electrical & force contact.
- Place proper cable strain relief/clamps further along on the cable so that the whole terminal assembly has no strain on it (this is best electrical practice).
I do know how to solder properly.
When customers and standards levy these requirements they recognize that the assembly workers are J-STD trained or possibly even trained to the insane WS6536 standards.
They also know how to solder properly (better than me but I did take some training in the 80’s) and they’re still not supposed to do this.
As for the wicking, physics is physics. There are anti wicking tweezers but they are not always effective and you need them to be properly sized. Pretty ‘spensive for a hobbyist.
Of course these are connections for a personal application. Anyone can do whatever they want.
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Folks:
Your counsel would be appreciated: I have a Wirefy crimper and a ferrule crimper and both serve me very well. I could also use a crimper for tiny non-insulated female connectors (whose identity I am ignorant of). It appears that Wirefy sells an individual crimping die for the non-insulated female connectors that could be inserted in my Wirefy crimper (see https://wirefyshop.com/products/wir...tm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=df0d398c45bf) but, at about 18 USD (plus shipping), it seems over-priced. Would one of the SN-48BS units available on AliExpress (e.g., https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256....0.0.6e0738da20WgcD&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa) serve just as well?
Many thanks,
Scott
Your counsel would be appreciated: I have a Wirefy crimper and a ferrule crimper and both serve me very well. I could also use a crimper for tiny non-insulated female connectors (whose identity I am ignorant of). It appears that Wirefy sells an individual crimping die for the non-insulated female connectors that could be inserted in my Wirefy crimper (see https://wirefyshop.com/products/wir...tm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=df0d398c45bf) but, at about 18 USD (plus shipping), it seems over-priced. Would one of the SN-48BS units available on AliExpress (e.g., https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256....0.0.6e0738da20WgcD&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa) serve just as well?
Many thanks,
Scott
Attachments
I've got that same Ali crimping tool with a bunch of dies for various terminals. It has managed to make DIY satisfactory crimps with any terminal I've tried, so it will probably be ok for those ones (with the correct size of die).
For aerospace work, I use a DMC kit with correct dies for the mil-spec connectors, but the kits cost $$$$ because they are calibrated tooling. And soldering a crimped connection is not aerospace standard, so it's simply not done. In a commercial setting, you should abide by the datasheet of the terminal, using the correct tool.
For home use, the Ali ratcheting crimp tool that cost me about $20 does what I need to do. Soldering a terminal after crimping 'just to be sure' has happened on more than one occasion.... For home use, in a dry environment, it's not been a problem, but perhaps unnecessary if the crimp is good (this is not assured when the tool is an uncalibrated Ali special though).
Remember, DIY is a 'choose your own adventure'.
For aerospace work, I use a DMC kit with correct dies for the mil-spec connectors, but the kits cost $$$$ because they are calibrated tooling. And soldering a crimped connection is not aerospace standard, so it's simply not done. In a commercial setting, you should abide by the datasheet of the terminal, using the correct tool.
For home use, the Ali ratcheting crimp tool that cost me about $20 does what I need to do. Soldering a terminal after crimping 'just to be sure' has happened on more than one occasion.... For home use, in a dry environment, it's not been a problem, but perhaps unnecessary if the crimp is good (this is not assured when the tool is an uncalibrated Ali special though).
Remember, DIY is a 'choose your own adventure'.
Hello,
If the terminals need to be crimped with a well defined force you will probably end up with an expensive tool. It is like a ratchet for tightening bolts. In the average brake assembly there are few different torques needed. If there are two sets of identical bolts which need both a different torque you better not mix them.
Here there are no human lives at danger but better do it right. There is a thread here somewhere where people use 3000F supercaps attached with tie wraps. Most people have no clue what will happen if you create a short circuit.
Recently there was a fire in a parking lot in Denmark ( i believe) .A man read that a bit higher temperature would be beneficial for the battery pack in his Tesla. So he put an electric toaster under his car to improve things.
Greetings, Eduard
If the terminals need to be crimped with a well defined force you will probably end up with an expensive tool. It is like a ratchet for tightening bolts. In the average brake assembly there are few different torques needed. If there are two sets of identical bolts which need both a different torque you better not mix them.
Here there are no human lives at danger but better do it right. There is a thread here somewhere where people use 3000F supercaps attached with tie wraps. Most people have no clue what will happen if you create a short circuit.
Recently there was a fire in a parking lot in Denmark ( i believe) .A man read that a bit higher temperature would be beneficial for the battery pack in his Tesla. So he put an electric toaster under his car to improve things.
Greetings, Eduard
I never said otherwise....
& again I'll repeat...(as somebody else who brought up the NASA specs)...:-
This forum is "DIY Audio"......we're not paid contractors making critical electronics systems for space, airplanes, military etc...its usually personal electronics inside of equipment boxes that are usually inside our own homes.
I am fully aware of the differences that when you're a paid contractor you do stuff to the required standard/regs......but as this is a "hobbies" forum the cost to buy the exact branded tool for the exact branded terminal is £££.
If you want to worry about buying the exact tool to match the exact branded terminal for this "hobby" situation then you really should NOT be opening up or modifying any bought hi-fi/speakers as your modifications will void the original safety certs the manufacturer registered the product with...
@SRMcGee -
I stand by what I mentioned to @Mulburg ... I'd grab one... try it out with a bunch of spare wire and a few pennies worth of terminals.
It's typically fairly easy to tell if you're "bending all the right things in all the right places". Also, when size is questionable, and/or the connector supports a range of wire gauges combined with varying insulation thicknesses (as applicable), there is typically an adjustment screw on even the most basic ratcheting crimpers to tweak it. I have a number of different types of stranded 16AWG wire as an example. The strand count differs thus making the overall diameter of the bundle different between each AND the insulation type varies. I just have some notes "like two turns from the stop CCW for wire X... or whatever."
It doesn't have to be rocket science (kidding guys) to get a really, really nice mechanically stable crimp with excellent low resistance after a few tries. Heck, I typically cut all my wiring long anyway just in the event I screw up a crimp or two. The DC resistance difference in my crimps isn't going to make one iota of difference in my application. I lean toward the highly scientific yank, tug, bend, fold, spindle, and try to mutilate testing method for mechanical stress.
As a side note... The orientation of the connector in the crimper can be pretty fiddly. I only have one type (Anderson PowerCon style and it's associated crimper) that helps get the darn thing in the right spot each time. The typical insulated connectors are generally a little easier... I know some folks abhor them and even recommend tearing off the insulation and then soldering them... and then putting heatshrink over them, and that's their call... but I've never worried once about their reliability.
----------------------------------------
To all - from back in post #10
My general point was and is... I'm not sure why people second guess the manufacturers... except for a few (sort of valid) reasons, I don't understand why people insist that their "wrong" way is "better". It's NOT. It may be OK. That's fine.
As long as people are honest with themselves about why they do it the way they do it... I don't see the point in argument. There is one best way to do it... typically. Then you have a list of (again valid) excuses as to why to do it in some inferior way...
I stand by what I mentioned to @Mulburg ... I'd grab one... try it out with a bunch of spare wire and a few pennies worth of terminals.
It's typically fairly easy to tell if you're "bending all the right things in all the right places". Also, when size is questionable, and/or the connector supports a range of wire gauges combined with varying insulation thicknesses (as applicable), there is typically an adjustment screw on even the most basic ratcheting crimpers to tweak it. I have a number of different types of stranded 16AWG wire as an example. The strand count differs thus making the overall diameter of the bundle different between each AND the insulation type varies. I just have some notes "like two turns from the stop CCW for wire X... or whatever."
It doesn't have to be rocket science (kidding guys) to get a really, really nice mechanically stable crimp with excellent low resistance after a few tries. Heck, I typically cut all my wiring long anyway just in the event I screw up a crimp or two. The DC resistance difference in my crimps isn't going to make one iota of difference in my application. I lean toward the highly scientific yank, tug, bend, fold, spindle, and try to mutilate testing method for mechanical stress.
As a side note... The orientation of the connector in the crimper can be pretty fiddly. I only have one type (Anderson PowerCon style and it's associated crimper) that helps get the darn thing in the right spot each time. The typical insulated connectors are generally a little easier... I know some folks abhor them and even recommend tearing off the insulation and then soldering them... and then putting heatshrink over them, and that's their call... but I've never worried once about their reliability.
----------------------------------------
To all - from back in post #10
My general point was and is... I'm not sure why people second guess the manufacturers... except for a few (sort of valid) reasons, I don't understand why people insist that their "wrong" way is "better". It's NOT. It may be OK. That's fine.
As long as people are honest with themselves about why they do it the way they do it... I don't see the point in argument. There is one best way to do it... typically. Then you have a list of (again valid) excuses as to why to do it in some inferior way...
- Expense
- Laziness
- Lack of knowledge / experience
- Don't care
For some reason I can't direct quote you!..
Anyway.....
There has to be a "happy medium"......this is a DIY audio forum mainly for hobbyists.....telling people to do stuff to NASA spec is way OTT......as to get a specific branded tool to match to the specific branded terminal costs ££££...& you may only need it for a hand full of terminals!
(The only time I've had to spend ££ on the above as a "DIY" was back circa 2009yr installing CAT6E?? cable (for a CCTV system in my property & also a network system in a mates house) & using shielded plugs & sockets...got the matching tool & die sets...but I had several dozen plugs to fit as I made up my own patch cables...so it was worth the money!!!)
......on the other hand I've seen photos of stuff on this forum that make me want to scream "for God's sake un-plug that dangerous thing you've made & never go near anything electrical again!".
I've done electrical design & installation as part of my qualifications at tech collage & uni...so I have at least a basic understanding of layouts, influencing factors, safety, "problems", etc., etc....
On a side note:- Most cars manufactures just use heat shrink "solder sleeves" to directly join/splice cables in the looms......simple to use & waterproof.....I use the same when I'm doing car wiring alterations.....& way better then those horrible "scotch locks" which are still used & recommended by people & still included in reputable accessory kits!.......burn them!!!!
Highlight the text you'd like to quote, and hit the quote button. The site software won't let you quote (for good reason) the entire previous post.
Agreed. 100000000%
See also... expense noted as valid reason. Just be honest that it's likely inferior to doing it the way the manufacturer intended. Also, show me where I recommended to anyone to do it to NASA spec, please. Heck, two of my posts recommend getting a basic ratcheting crimper and fooling around with it (along with an assortment of dies). Using the basic ratcheting crimper that's intended for insulated connectors will be a joke for the type of connector shown in post #1 as an example.
My recommendation is hardly NASA spec. If you have a gripe with someone recommending NASA spec, then quote them.
Mainly... I think you and I are agreed. The only slight difference may stem from my poor communication style...
All I'm trying to get across is...
There is (typically) a best way to create an attachment between wire and connector for a particular connector / wire combination.
Be aware of it, and maybe try to understand why it's the best.
If you can't do it that way (or just don't want to for any list of reasons) ... that's OK too.
Also.... I'm trying to discourage the spreading of the (IMO) incorrect mentality that soldering + crimping is better. It's often perfectly fine. If executed with care, it might even be equal to... but it's unlikely (if ever) going to be better than a properly executed crimp (with the types of connections we're discussing).
Where I agree wholeheartedly and with passion... is that crimp + solder MAY be better than a crappy crimp.
Edited to add... sorry to call it out, and I hope it's OK, since it's the OP's thread and example... to me... I actually think the connection in post #1 would be better off without the solder (even though crimped improperly). I'd have to see it in person, but my gut tells me that a few back and forth movements on that wire... and "snap" b/c the solder will have made those few strands of (relatively) fine wire brittle.
From back in post #10...
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Ali knock off ratcheting crimper is a good option for hobby use. Even with the correct name brand crimping tool you still need to test by tugging a bit however. Chances are the terminals are different from brand to brand, and that can make a difference.
I gave up on those simple crimp tools from the car parts store. Last time I used one, it punctured the terminal, no bueno…
I gave up on those simple crimp tools from the car parts store. Last time I used one, it punctured the terminal, no bueno…
Highlight the text you'd like to quote, and hit the quote button. The site software won't let you quote (for good reason) the entire previous post.
Agreed. 100000000%
See also... expense noted as valid reason. Just be honest that it's likely inferior to doing it the way the manufacturer intended. Also, show me where I recommended to anyone to do it to NASA spec, please. Heck, two of my posts recommend getting a basic ratcheting crimper and fooling around with it (along with an assortment of dies). Using the basic ratcheting crimper that's intended for insulated connectors will be a joke for the type of connector shown in post #1 as an example.
My recommendation is hardly NASA spec. If you have a gripe with someone recommending NASA spec, then quote them.
Mainly... I think you and I are agreed. The only slight difference may stem from my poor communication style...
All I'm trying to get across is...
There is (typically) a best way to create an attachment between wire and connector for a particular connector / wire combination.
Be aware of it, and maybe try to understand why it's the best.
If you can't do it that way (or just don't want to for any list of reasons) ... that's OK too.
Also.... I'm trying to discourage the spreading of the (IMO) incorrect mentality that soldering + crimping is better. It's often perfectly fine. If executed with care, it might even be equal to... but it's unlikely (if ever) going to be better than a properly executed crimp (with the types of connections we're discussing).
Where I agree wholeheartedly and with passion... is that crimp + solder MAY be better than a crappy crimp.
Edited to add... sorry to call it out, and I hope it's OK, since it's the OP's thread and example... to me... I actually think the connection in post #1 would be better off without the solder (even though crimped improperly). I'd have to see it in person, but my gut tells me that a few back and forth movements on that wire... and "snap" b/c the solder will have made those few strands of (relatively) fine wire brittle.
From back in post #10...
I managed to quote it all as the "Quote" button has appeared in your post!.....strange!!.
Re the NASA spec...sorry it wasn't you, it was somebody else I was referring to...I should have made it clearer....I just couldn't re-edit the post in time!...
We agree on a lot of the common ground in this thread!..
Back to the OP photo......those thin terminals I come across in car electronics...& those wires are brittle....you really need to carefully twist the wire tight to "capture" all the strands before you place it in the terminal to then crimp...I wouldn't solder it to the terminal but I have lightly tinned the wire beforehand to "glue" the strands back together when I've had to repair a connection & don't have much room in the wire to cut back to fresh!
Nope... not strange... you can fully quote any post but the one directly preceding yours. As an example... this post is #34. I can highlight text and hit the quote button that appears (example below) for post #33. I can fully quote posts 1 through 32.
Make sense?
I think so too. I tend to type a lot... and perhaps the theme gets lost.
That's reasonable.
Below is the screenshot of how I captured the text in a quote from your preceding post...
Haha!! managed it!......Many thanks!!....& yes I get it...forum won't let you quote (button) the latest post...!
Ratcheting crimpers are great. You can insert the Spade connector or whatever connector you're using into the tool, bring it to the first ratchet click which just holds it and starts the crimp curl over. Insert your wire then ratchet it the rest of the way. You don't need three hands dropping connectors! Definitely don't strip too long, you need the insulation and wire to line up with both curl over areas separately. The best crimps I've ever done is using silver plated Teflon wire 20 Awg, but I'd use the 22 awg anvil in the crimper to get even more pressure on the deformation. Use heat shrink then. A ratcheting crimper gets more pressure than any plier crimper can.
Scott,
I went thru the same process, thinking it would be nice to have a crimper which you could get interchangeable dies for, but then started looking at the price of the dies and decided against it (I think I was looking at the same Wirefy crimper that you got). I wound bying one of these instead, and it has worked well for Molex KK, Spox and Micro-Fit terminals that I have been using as long as you are careful: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078WPT5M1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 In your case, I might just buy the Wirefy die if you already have the crimper since this one is more than the die costs.
ItsAllInMyHead and Pars:
Thank you! Good advice all around. The crimper Pars suggested is also available at AliExpress (under 21 USD tomorrow, during their Winter Sale), but I'm leaning towards https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256....0.0.7e6c38daoO53im&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa (see the sixth option, model CLB-58B), which will cost about 12.50 USD. At that price, it's too cheap to not test.
Regards to all,
Scott
Thank you! Good advice all around. The crimper Pars suggested is also available at AliExpress (under 21 USD tomorrow, during their Winter Sale), but I'm leaning towards https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256....0.0.7e6c38daoO53im&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa (see the sixth option, model CLB-58B), which will cost about 12.50 USD. At that price, it's too cheap to not test.
Regards to all,
Scott