Is an EV more expensive than an equivalent iCE car? Including the subsidy? The answer still appears to be yes.
Of course the subsidy comes from tax paid. I'm assuming also by those who still can't afford an EV even with the subsidy.
Also for the potential first time buyer there's also the question of recharging it. Where? If you got a drive, fine. But what if you don't?
Then you're dependent of public infrastructure. How far away from your home is the nearest charging point? How hard will it be to get time on it and what sort of premium will you be paying over domestic electricity costs?
Of course the subsidy comes from tax paid. I'm assuming also by those who still can't afford an EV even with the subsidy.
Also for the potential first time buyer there's also the question of recharging it. Where? If you got a drive, fine. But what if you don't?
Then you're dependent of public infrastructure. How far away from your home is the nearest charging point? How hard will it be to get time on it and what sort of premium will you be paying over domestic electricity costs?
Morocco has a more of these in planning and the extention cord to Europe is underway. The Sahara is a good place for solar. It will be interetsing to see if the “shade” creates an oasis.
dave
The point is going electric is going to take more fossil fuel than we're already using in order to provide the juice. Hydrocarbon emission from cars right now is negligeable. They run very clean leaving only CO2 behind. Compare that to the stacks that are spewing all the ancillaries required to run electric vehicles mainstream.
Kinda overdue. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they get it to work somewhere and can sustain it. I'm thinking it will be at least a decade before there's electricity going into the grid just because of the time it'll take to plan and build a station.
So another 20 years? That's close to the working lifetime of a fission plant...
Old power plant. One can put way more emmissions control than what can be put into a car. Even Co2 scrubbing.
And with solar & wind cheaper to produce and getting cheaper, so petroleum generation will get priced out of the market. But part of that is tied up in storage. Peopel are clever. One that stood out to me was the use of old coal mines in the UK to create gravity batteries. And that is only one of many.
https://wonderfulengineering.com/th...energy-in-hot-rocks-is-intriguing-scientists/
dave
They are amazing. 30 years ago I visited a plant in Algeria, Spain, that was experimenting using mirrors to focus the sun and provide enough energy to smelt iron ore.
Amy idea of output and are they using moulten salt for storage?
IOn my lifetime is seems fusion has been 35 years away. But after a much longer wait it seems the breakthrus ar ebeing made that will make it practical. More out than in has been achieved, it needs to be sustained. New Machine Learning techniques to dymnamically stabalize the plasma in Tokamaks will help. And the laser smashing technique has done well too.
Maybe 15 years before affordable power hits the grid?
dave
Yes, it's an interesting variation on pumped storage. IIRC problem being like pumped storage it's only good for dealing with short (few hours) fluctuations in demand.
I've read of other schemes that plan to store heat in flooded workings as a form of battery storage. Neat idea if they can pull it off.
We're going to need to cater for times when wind isn't generating much for a week or more. There are periods where wind generation is maybe 5-10% of plate capacity.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/20...t-moroccos-noor-solar-power-plant-iii-to-grid
150 mW. And yes salt as a battery, seems to be common. The one in rthe SW USA desert (Arizona) also uses salt.
These do take up a lot of space and anytjhing flying near the foical point goes up in smoke, so deserts are a good place to put them. The birds attracted by the potential oasis will hopefully evolve to avoid that airspace.
dave
10 years from when the first sustained fusion reaction happens to getting a 3-4GW plant in operation?
Pumping water into existing hydro electric generating facilities is a simple idea, but getting the water desalinized and into this is greatly complicated by the in land locations of many hydro facilities. Here in BC it cveratinky is. But smaller closer facilities could be developed.
dave
Probably better to skip the oasis. I can see the headlines now. Thousands of rare migrating birds go up in smoke flying too close to solar power plant.
jeff
The only predictions i have seen is that a UK firmn is saying power onto the grid before 2030 but about a decade before it becomes cost competitive. Don’t recall how big it is.
dave
I have seen them already.
How many birds die as a side effect of the petroleum industry. Thinking birds in the oilsands waste.
dave
That makes no sense. The same vehicle, whether gas or electric drives down the road. We already established the masses are comparable, therefore the energy required is comparable. The difference is that the combustion process is massively inefficient. Over 60% of the energy released from combustion in cars is released as heat into the air. Granted electrical distribution has losses but at least the generation at the other end is open, whereas the ICE vehicle will always generate CO2 no matter how much we filter it. Yes, ~50% of US electrical generation is still coal or gas, but not 100% and that number is steadily declining.
yeah, unfortunately fusion is probably still at least a decade out, probably longer. Definitely not something we should be "waiting for" in lieu of making immediate fixes to the energy generation profiles of the world's nations, especially when you consider countries like China and India that have huge populations that are even today industrializing like the west did 120 years ago. Massive increases in consumerism and energy consumption in those countries needs to be mitigated asap if we don't want global warming to accelerate even further.
NO, the EV is not more expensive, it is significantly cheaper. The base models of the model 3 and Y are cheaper than an average car in the US without the subsidy and the long range versions are cheaper with the subsidies. With cost of ownership savings the EV's are even cheaper. If you have a point to make, make it instead of empty what-if's.
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