Hi all
Im currently building my full range speaker for my home theater
I do have a onkyo tx-nr585
At the moment I have the first version of the front one (planning on having 2 front, 2 back)
they run in bi-amp mode so the woofer is drived seperatly.
im using crossover component (inductor, capacitor and lpad) lend by a friend
So my question is this: would it worth it having a setup of digital filtering and small class d mono amp (like L15DSMD) for each speaker instead of more normal crossover?
the cost of inductor is high so im not sure if it would be almost equivalent. Im not an audiophile and will be very happy with decent audio quality.
would it work with my home theater amp? its not a preamp im not sure im allowed to drive amp with an amp :S
Thanks guys
Im currently building my full range speaker for my home theater
I do have a onkyo tx-nr585
At the moment I have the first version of the front one (planning on having 2 front, 2 back)
they run in bi-amp mode so the woofer is drived seperatly.
im using crossover component (inductor, capacitor and lpad) lend by a friend
So my question is this: would it worth it having a setup of digital filtering and small class d mono amp (like L15DSMD) for each speaker instead of more normal crossover?
the cost of inductor is high so im not sure if it would be almost equivalent. Im not an audiophile and will be very happy with decent audio quality.
would it work with my home theater amp? its not a preamp im not sure im allowed to drive amp with an amp :S
Thanks guys
Digital crossovers are easier to work with than trying to build an equivalent (close as possible) analog passive version. As you mentioned, the parts get expensive! The problem is, amps get expensive too. How many speakers are in your system, and how many amp channels are in your receiver? If you have all the amp channels you need to bi-amp all the speakers you want to use, then the home theater receiver will work great. However, you should consider the possibility of yourself or someone else making a mistake with the input settings on the receiver and accidentally sending a full bandwidth signal to the tweeters. For that reason, I think it's prudent to put a capacitor on the tweeters to act as a simple first order crossover of last resort. It might save the tweeter's lives. Caps are cheap.
Hi
I plan on 2X 3 way speaker on front
and 2X 2 way in the back
so 10 drivers
Currently I have only the front one connected in bi-amp from my onkyo (still have to use the crossover for the woofer)
from what I understand I need something to do the dsp job like: mini dsp flex as example
and wire each output to an amp for each driver (what power each???)
then there is the question of the hdmi, I use a firetv most of the time for movies, currently it goes into the onkyo and the output to the projector.
where could I integrate a minidsp there?
then its only 8 channels not 10, so I could keep the back one with passive crossover but, doesn't it defeat everything then...
as for the invidual amp should I take some class D amp at 100W output? what power supply would be needed?
I plan on 2X 3 way speaker on front
and 2X 2 way in the back
so 10 drivers
Currently I have only the front one connected in bi-amp from my onkyo (still have to use the crossover for the woofer)
from what I understand I need something to do the dsp job like: mini dsp flex as example
and wire each output to an amp for each driver (what power each???)
then there is the question of the hdmi, I use a firetv most of the time for movies, currently it goes into the onkyo and the output to the projector.
where could I integrate a minidsp there?
then its only 8 channels not 10, so I could keep the back one with passive crossover but, doesn't it defeat everything then...
as for the invidual amp should I take some class D amp at 100W output? what power supply would be needed?
I've never set up a surround system with active crossovers. To keep it all digital you'll somehow need access to all the encoded channels before they are converted to analog. I think this ends up being difficult because of digital copyright protection, so most people end up having to get a multi-channel decoder that spits out all the analog sound channels, and then you have to feed those analog signals into a device like a MiniDSP box and convert them back to digital for crossovers and equalization, and then convert them back to analog before they go to the amps. There's some dispute over whether the extra A/D D/A conversions amount to anything really audible. I would say they are probably less destructive than using a passive network, but it can't be better than removing those extra conversion steps. Somebody like Trinnov may have a full digital solution for encoded multi-channel soundtracks but I imagine it's expensive, and you'd have to stay in their proprietary system to keep it all copasetic with the content creators. In other words, they're not going to be allowed to give you direct access to all the individual channels in digital form so that you can feed them into whatever device you want.
As for what amps you should use, that depends on the efficiency of your speakers and how loud you want it to go. With active crossovers you're automatically gaining some efficiency and distributed load. I'd think for most home applications 100W class D should be more than enough for everything except maybe the subwoofers.
As for what amps you should use, that depends on the efficiency of your speakers and how loud you want it to go. With active crossovers you're automatically gaining some efficiency and distributed load. I'd think for most home applications 100W class D should be more than enough for everything except maybe the subwoofers.
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Ive been looking into it, finding a 10 channel output is quasi impossible unless you check studio equipement which is $$.
looking at HT processor might not be a bad avenue. I kinda like a pc linux or windows to do the dsp job but would probably require 2 pc (one in front one in back??)
Can I put 2 sound card on 1 pc to drive all 10 channel?
there is pci-e card or usb card that could maybe work.
something like this could keep the signal digital from the hdmi to the dps (pc) if the sound card has a coax or spdif input, then I think all 8 channels of the sound would be from source to dsp in digital.
then use 1 or 2 sound card as preamp to each amp/driver
would that make sense?
looking at HT processor might not be a bad avenue. I kinda like a pc linux or windows to do the dsp job but would probably require 2 pc (one in front one in back??)
Can I put 2 sound card on 1 pc to drive all 10 channel?
there is pci-e card or usb card that could maybe work.
something like this could keep the signal digital from the hdmi to the dps (pc) if the sound card has a coax or spdif input, then I think all 8 channels of the sound would be from source to dsp in digital.
then use 1 or 2 sound card as preamp to each amp/driver
would that make sense?
multiple interfaces dont work together for timecritical multichannel setups (they dont work in sync unless they have a clock input)
active (analog) crossovers come kinda handy in this setup.... no need for 10 dacs, just 10 amps and 1 dac (i like this since you can have a expensive dac for the whole system instead of some cheap multichannel stuff)
i only know about the topping and motu ultralite 8 channel dacs if you wanna go pc dsp .... otherwise there is mainly studio gear... which also can be synced together most of the time with a clock, so you can use 2x 6 channel or something like that
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with the right setup you can definitely stay completely digital until the final D/A conversion, tho putting hardware together is a puzzle unless you go with studio stuff
for example, i have a raspberry pi setup, unfortunaly only capable of stereo over i2s but you can setup the raspberry pi so you can connect it via usb otg to your main pc, the main pc sees the pi as "audio device", the pi routes the audio via camilladsp from usb to your actual dac that is connected to the pi (usb for multichannel)
but these kind of setups can be messy regarding timing/buffering, camilladsp is capable of syncing input and output properly but there isnt much other software that does it without resampling
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analogue active crossover between dac/preamp and the amps
analogue active crossover is the "low power" equivalent of a passive crossover (but with opamps etc)
tho dont ask me for readymade solutions... i think there are some but probably not for 10 channels, you probably need to design the active crossover circuit yourself... you go in with stereo channels of your dac/preamp and out comes 10 outputs that get hooked to each amp
i havent looked into much details here (so i cant give much further infos), i was myself researching since im planning a speaker build too
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a quick and dirty (but working) solutions would be something like this: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B6H but it introduces again the problem of going from analogue to digital and back to analogue
https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-CDSP 8x12 DL.pdf
pretty much what im looking for
Ill get more info to confirm it fit the bill
im not sure that https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12 would do the job also?
does it mean dirac live option can do the crossover without a computer?
pretty much what im looking for
Ill get more info to confirm it fit the bill
im not sure that https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12 would do the job also?
does it mean dirac live option can do the crossover without a computer?
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lets say I could live with having the back speaker with a passive crossover and the front one with 3 amp and driver
that would take 8 channels.
From what I understand I need some kind of hdmi audio extractor to give either the 6 analogs channel or a spdif (coax or optical)
then take the raw channel to a pc
pc does its dps magic
and output on 8 channels
right?
is there any card that have a spdif input that windows or linux can read all 6 channels from it (dolby compressed I guess)?
that would take 8 channels.
From what I understand I need some kind of hdmi audio extractor to give either the 6 analogs channel or a spdif (coax or optical)
then take the raw channel to a pc
pc does its dps magic
and output on 8 channels
right?
is there any card that have a spdif input that windows or linux can read all 6 channels from it (dolby compressed I guess)?
Hi there, and welcome. I went through a similar exercise and, just a warning: this is a rabbit hole that runs deep.
First, your amp is... how do I put this delicately... could be better. Onkyos run hot and there are few HT receivers able to deliver decent power.
Here's what I suggest:
1. Get yourself another receiver - why? Because it will have to be worked on often, so you might have one functional while working on your prototype.
2. The unit you use needs to have a Service Manual available, and you need toservice it... "stuff happens" @predator
3. Budget for time, money and frustration.
Been there. Imho, L-pads belong in the past. I recommend the following: start easy:
- you could get a cheap DSP - I am using the Behringer 2496 - and use this for digital filering, channel level adjust, etc. This is to allow you to hear the impact of changing a crossover point, levels per channel, etc.
- I also added behringer's 30 band eq for some additional tweaking.
- once you're happy - and this takes some time, it's good to listen to various music types, seat yourself in different spots, see if the settings get you tired, etc, you have some initial data.
- I did measurements (individual and combined response) but found them to be limited value - a real listening environment colors the sound, and then there is our perception. You like what you like....
So, all this is about getting to see what crossover frequencies and equalization works for you and your room. If you find the above of any value, let me know and will share more.
P.S. A few findings:
- there is no substitute for displacement - good bass requires large woofers (with an appropriately sized motor/coil) and more than likely one or more subwoofer. And no, I am not moving the windows, but I like my bass deep even at low levels.
- midrange seems less "picky" AS long as you don't load midrange eith bass frequencies (positive cut below 300hz or so). Most decent drivers work, but they need their own enclosure.
- tweeters are a matter of personal preference. What I like is not what my wife loves, and friends prefer otherwise.
I was thinking the other way round - you have 6 or 7 amps in the receiver, you could use those. My setup uses 7 amps as follows:
Dvd transport -> Spdif -> analog -> 3-way active x-over -> 3+3amps. I use an old HK7500 as amplifier, and the source is stereo only. To my knowledge there are few records offering more than stereo (in my area of interest).
good luck!
Dvd transport -> Spdif -> analog -> 3-way active x-over -> 3+3amps. I use an old HK7500 as amplifier, and the source is stereo only. To my knowledge there are few records offering more than stereo (in my area of interest).
good luck!