Hi,
My old Windows 8 Media Centre PC is no longer reliable and of course Windows 8 is long out of support. I no longer need my tv card as we have a STB and a smart TV so that covers that aspect.
I’d prefer to avoid the bulk of a mini ATX style PC that I used previously so I started looking at the small NUC style computers like the gigabyte BRIX series. They can be had with very low cost processors like the J series Celeron, through Pentuim, i3 and AMD ryzen CPUs.
I am most familiar with Windows and use Linux very rarely, so for me that would be an easy path. I did briefly consider an SBC like say the ODroid N2+ that has a Kodi based media center bundled, but I really have no idea if that would work well for me. All my media is either FLAC or WMA lossless and I use Qobuz as my main streaming platform.
Is something like the BRIX with 1.6 GHz Celeron good enough for media centre duties with a 4K TV and probably jriver?
Would anyone strongly advocate the N2+ / Linux instead? This is available fanless.
Ideally no fans, or at least a quiet one. I find laptop fans tend be noisier than quiet pc fans since they run fast and tend to hiss somewhat.
I’d like to hear your thoughts and experiences.
Many thanks.
My old Windows 8 Media Centre PC is no longer reliable and of course Windows 8 is long out of support. I no longer need my tv card as we have a STB and a smart TV so that covers that aspect.
I’d prefer to avoid the bulk of a mini ATX style PC that I used previously so I started looking at the small NUC style computers like the gigabyte BRIX series. They can be had with very low cost processors like the J series Celeron, through Pentuim, i3 and AMD ryzen CPUs.
I am most familiar with Windows and use Linux very rarely, so for me that would be an easy path. I did briefly consider an SBC like say the ODroid N2+ that has a Kodi based media center bundled, but I really have no idea if that would work well for me. All my media is either FLAC or WMA lossless and I use Qobuz as my main streaming platform.
Is something like the BRIX with 1.6 GHz Celeron good enough for media centre duties with a 4K TV and probably jriver?
Would anyone strongly advocate the N2+ / Linux instead? This is available fanless.
Ideally no fans, or at least a quiet one. I find laptop fans tend be noisier than quiet pc fans since they run fast and tend to hiss somewhat.
I’d like to hear your thoughts and experiences.
Many thanks.
I used to use the Pi platform, and then moved to the miniPC form factor, which is typically slightly larger than the BRIX or NUC. The better ones have a fan but it will be essentially silent if you choose the CPU carefully. Look for TDP under 35W, with 15W being ideal. There are some Ryzen mobile CPUs that offer a nice combination of computing horsepower with low TDP, e.g. Ryzen 5 5560u or 5500u, for example offered in the Beelink SER5. If 4k playback for TV is important, pay close attention to the graphics capability. I only process audio so I have no idea which might be a better platform in that regard.
A lot depends on exactly what you want to do with the box. Are you just streaming audio, or do you need something that can output 4k video as well?
For audio, a Raspberry Pi running moode, Volumio or picoreplayer is all you need. For video, the Homatics R 4k Plus is a nice choice, and is supported by Coreelec. If you don't need a DolbyVision licence then most of the cheap Amlogic 905X4 boxes you can find on Aliexpress will work fine (though install Coreleec with Kodi rather than using the ghastly Android build they provide).
All of these are fanless.
For audio, a Raspberry Pi running moode, Volumio or picoreplayer is all you need. For video, the Homatics R 4k Plus is a nice choice, and is supported by Coreelec. If you don't need a DolbyVision licence then most of the cheap Amlogic 905X4 boxes you can find on Aliexpress will work fine (though install Coreleec with Kodi rather than using the ghastly Android build they provide).
All of these are fanless.
Intel N95 and N100 System-On-Chip processors have currently the best ratio between power consumption and speed on low-power Windows compatible platforms. Most NUC-like PCs based on N95/N100 have a fan: they have a power management feature and the fan is silent when heawy computation is not required. There are also fanless options on the market, and a few requires USB-C or 12V power instead of 19V that is the most popular choice for external power supplies on low cost laptops and small form factor PCs.
The previous generation Pentium/Celeron series processors have about half the processiong power at the same power draw level. The integrated video controller is also less capable, but they are still enough for audio and price may be lower than N95/N100. AMD based platform (Ryzen) aims at higher performance and power level.
The type and size of RAM is an important consideration. It does not make a lot of difference for performance on low power systems but it may be a constraint for future expansions. DDR5 is the latest technology, older platforms are limited to DDR4 or DDR3. Internal storage may also be important for future expansions. Latest technology is NvMe M2, but there are still many compact PCs with legacy SATA or the slower eMMC.
The previous generation Pentium/Celeron series processors have about half the processiong power at the same power draw level. The integrated video controller is also less capable, but they are still enough for audio and price may be lower than N95/N100. AMD based platform (Ryzen) aims at higher performance and power level.
The type and size of RAM is an important consideration. It does not make a lot of difference for performance on low power systems but it may be a constraint for future expansions. DDR5 is the latest technology, older platforms are limited to DDR4 or DDR3. Internal storage may also be important for future expansions. Latest technology is NvMe M2, but there are still many compact PCs with legacy SATA or the slower eMMC.
Thanks @CharlieLaub !
The video is just for the “10ft UI” of jriver. I have a few low end video cards and none struggle with full HD so I am comfortable with that aspect. It’s main use will be audio.
Thanks for the tip on TDP! Years ago I would have been very familiar with all the common CPUs, but these days there are so many and for general purpose use almost anything will do that I had stopped paying attention!
Both my main pcs run on AMD ryzen quad core chips and are plenty quick enough, but I’ll take a closer look at the low power variations and see what looks good from TDP perspective.
Thanks also everyone else that has just chimed in. Can the Linux machines play WMA lossless? I thought that was Microsoft proprietary codec?
I’ll see what I can find about the N95/100 offerings too!
The video is just for the “10ft UI” of jriver. I have a few low end video cards and none struggle with full HD so I am comfortable with that aspect. It’s main use will be audio.
Thanks for the tip on TDP! Years ago I would have been very familiar with all the common CPUs, but these days there are so many and for general purpose use almost anything will do that I had stopped paying attention!
Both my main pcs run on AMD ryzen quad core chips and are plenty quick enough, but I’ll take a closer look at the low power variations and see what looks good from TDP perspective.
Thanks also everyone else that has just chimed in. Can the Linux machines play WMA lossless? I thought that was Microsoft proprietary codec?
I’ll see what I can find about the N95/100 offerings too!
Linux is limited for software and drivers
Not worth the fight for me.
Main thing is staying away from new versions
of windows.
Just run windows 10
I bought a AMD 1.8 Ghz system used at a pawn shop
for 250 dollars which was monitor and everything.
Works fine, for countless years now.
Probably best thing I ever did was spend the money
For a Solid State drive ( SSD ) compared to the old spinnner
disk hard drives ( HDD)
The system is Fast, when I first booted up it was incredible
the difference. Worth every penny.
If you dont need a blistering fast system for gaming or
video editing. Then alot of new " desktop" cases
is literally a laptop board and laptop brick for the power
supply. Im using desktop case, but its feather light
compared to the old systems. With no HDD drive
and no huge clunky power supply. Its comical how light
and simple it is to set up the board. No need to add bluetooth
or WiFI boards either like the old days. Everything is on the mother board
Not worth the fight for me.
Main thing is staying away from new versions
of windows.
Just run windows 10
I bought a AMD 1.8 Ghz system used at a pawn shop
for 250 dollars which was monitor and everything.
Works fine, for countless years now.
Probably best thing I ever did was spend the money
For a Solid State drive ( SSD ) compared to the old spinnner
disk hard drives ( HDD)
The system is Fast, when I first booted up it was incredible
the difference. Worth every penny.
If you dont need a blistering fast system for gaming or
video editing. Then alot of new " desktop" cases
is literally a laptop board and laptop brick for the power
supply. Im using desktop case, but its feather light
compared to the old systems. With no HDD drive
and no huge clunky power supply. Its comical how light
and simple it is to set up the board. No need to add bluetooth
or WiFI boards either like the old days. Everything is on the mother board
Yes.
Frankly, any sort of PC is massive overkill (and a load of overhead) if you just want to stream media. The exceptions would be situations where you want to use incredibly heavy DSP (i.e. HQPlayer extreme oversampling) or if you're inseparably wedded to Jriver.
Yes, plenty of us have this or similar.
However, the o/p was asking for
April 2024 - How much PC do you really need?
and hardware has much improved and progressed from your older system.Plenty of low power consumption systems with more than adequate resources for the o/p
Just about any modern Thin Client would work for audio and run from ssd.
( perhaps you need to revisit Linux as it is not what you found a decade ago
)
Yes, and a "real" computer case is not even required when add-on graphics cards aren't needed. My current system is a micro ATX motherboard inside a small Modushop 2U case from the "economica" series. The Cpu is a Intel 13th gen core i7 13700k (16 cores) paired with a low profile high performance silent fan. I use a modular 850W ATX power supply from Corsair with the "silent fan" option - fans does not spin at low power draws. "Modular" means that all the low voltage output cables are removable and can be exchanged/modified to select the required type and lenght - this is a popular option on the custom PCs market. I've also fitted a 90 degree angled pass-through connector on the mainboard power connector, this way I can use the modular power supply as external power brick. The computer looks like a Hi-Fi component, but it is smaller than most specialized HTPC cases for high performance processors, at a fraction of the price.
... More like "how many".
For audio, my front-end is a MS Surface Pro 7 i5, a fanless tablet running Windows 11 and feeding a Gustard 4499 DAC. The back-end is a HP microServer with Win10, storing all my digital music and located in a different room.
Finally, a bigger PC and a couple of laptops deal with admin, simulation, and so forth.
For audio, my front-end is a MS Surface Pro 7 i5, a fanless tablet running Windows 11 and feeding a Gustard 4499 DAC. The back-end is a HP microServer with Win10, storing all my digital music and located in a different room.
Finally, a bigger PC and a couple of laptops deal with admin, simulation, and so forth.
Most of you will not believe me, but I still am using a 1995 AMD 486 runing DOS 7.10 and the MPXPLAYer for DOS and I am happy with its performance, and for I want to use it: listen background electronic music. HD is 80gb and it has 2 of them so several days of continuos play without repeating.
Not to my knowledge. You will need to transcode WMA files to FLAC.
If the reliability problems are in the software and the hardware is still good, your machine is a prime candidate to switch to Linux.
Ed
Both ffmpeg and libav contain reverse-engineered WMA lossless decoders.
https://git.ffmpeg.org/gitweb/ffmpe...54d7aaf3c00c194f:/libavcodec/wmalosslessdec.c
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I checked a few non Windows players, they do list wma and wma pro as supported codecs.
My old Win 8 PC has gone unreliable at the hardware level unfortunately so won’t be moving to Linux.
I suspect FLAC is a bit more future proof and flexible than wma, however I want to keep my files though as some remasters have made a complete dogs breakfast of some recordings. I may have to transcode the wma ones, or re-rip them directly to flac.
My attachment to jriver is purely based on the large UI for TV use. I have to say I really loved Windows Media Centre and used it for TV,Satellite TV, DVD, videos, photos and music. It was most useful when the new digital TV standard came in as my TV wasn’t compatible with the standard chosen here. My TV has been replaced so I no longer need any of the TV functionality and I have A STB that is bundled with my ISP for live and catch up TV, and the TV has Netflix built in.
I am not familiar with any of the other media players for Windows that have the big UI.
The Dune-HD range looks interesting as does the bee-line S12 pro with N100 processor.
Windows 11 holds no fears for me since I work for Microsoft, so have been using it for a long time ahead of when it was released to the public. It is way better now than it was when first released, so if you haven’t tried a recent release (on compatible hardware!) you may be pleasantly surprised.
Many thanks for all the tips. I’m looking at all the suggestions so far. 🙂
My old Win 8 PC has gone unreliable at the hardware level unfortunately so won’t be moving to Linux.
I suspect FLAC is a bit more future proof and flexible than wma, however I want to keep my files though as some remasters have made a complete dogs breakfast of some recordings. I may have to transcode the wma ones, or re-rip them directly to flac.
My attachment to jriver is purely based on the large UI for TV use. I have to say I really loved Windows Media Centre and used it for TV,Satellite TV, DVD, videos, photos and music. It was most useful when the new digital TV standard came in as my TV wasn’t compatible with the standard chosen here. My TV has been replaced so I no longer need any of the TV functionality and I have A STB that is bundled with my ISP for live and catch up TV, and the TV has Netflix built in.
I am not familiar with any of the other media players for Windows that have the big UI.
The Dune-HD range looks interesting as does the bee-line S12 pro with N100 processor.
Windows 11 holds no fears for me since I work for Microsoft, so have been using it for a long time ahead of when it was released to the public. It is way better now than it was when first released, so if you haven’t tried a recent release (on compatible hardware!) you may be pleasantly surprised.
Many thanks for all the tips. I’m looking at all the suggestions so far. 🙂
Lenovo makes some nice li'l desktop PCs. I use a couple of them for things that require Windoze. They call them ThinkCentre. It's a compact form factor PC with everything you need if you want something that's reasonable quiet. The ThinkCentre does have a fan in it and it is audible when you're close to it. Even the older ThinkCentres support Windoze 11.
If you are tied to Windoze and want closer to completely silent, an option could be to get an older aluminum unibody version of the Apple Mac mini and installing Windoze on it. The minis are nice in that they dissipate quite a bit of heat through the chassis and also because the fan is exceptionally quiet. In fact, Apple has a patent on the design of the fan. It's something about the shape of the fan blades that somehow cancels out the noise produced by the fan. The fan is inaudible except on the absolute highest speed. I have a couple of minis that run some linux networking stuff and also had a 2012 mini that ran Windoze 10 just for sh*ts and grins. They all came from my local eWaste recycling place. I paid about $50 CAD for each of them.
The Apple SuperDrive (DVD+R) requires a Windoze driver. You can fish that out of Apple BootCamp. Just google "using apple superdrive on windows" and you shall find.
Just a thought.
Tom
If you are tied to Windoze and want closer to completely silent, an option could be to get an older aluminum unibody version of the Apple Mac mini and installing Windoze on it. The minis are nice in that they dissipate quite a bit of heat through the chassis and also because the fan is exceptionally quiet. In fact, Apple has a patent on the design of the fan. It's something about the shape of the fan blades that somehow cancels out the noise produced by the fan. The fan is inaudible except on the absolute highest speed. I have a couple of minis that run some linux networking stuff and also had a 2012 mini that ran Windoze 10 just for sh*ts and grins. They all came from my local eWaste recycling place. I paid about $50 CAD for each of them.
The Apple SuperDrive (DVD+R) requires a Windoze driver. You can fish that out of Apple BootCamp. Just google "using apple superdrive on windows" and you shall find.
Just a thought.
Tom
Would agree with those who say, it really depends on what you want the computer to do. If you want to run the latest algorithms in HQ Player for conversion of PCM to high sample rate DSD (all the rage now among the cognoscenti ), then that can take pretty powerful PC. Moreover if you want the PC to be in your listening room, maybe worth considering the tradeoffs of water cooling. Fan noise is much, much less.
), then that can take pretty powerful PC. Moreover if you want the PC to be in your listening room, maybe worth considering the tradeoffs of water cooling. Fan noise is much, much less.
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Just as you would on any pee-see: Boot from the USB installer. Insert the USB stick in the Mac and hold the option key down as soon as you hear the startup chime. That allows you to select the boot drive. Select USB and install as normal.
Naturally this requires a Mac with intel silicon.
Tom