Vifa mounting thoughts
The nice thing about this project is you can do anything you want.... How is that for avoiding the question!! Actually you have already answered your question.... mounting the Vifa from behind will put a pretty good ripple in the forward mid range responce. The combination of a bit of frequencey dependent loading and extra difraction effects will likely create two bumps in the frequency response actually. As with nearly all mid range - tweeter drivers, flush is best.
The only knock I have with the Vifa is the square frame. Great for some applications like line arrays, but requires good wood working skills to flush mount. If you can get the recess (counter bore, shallow tunnel or however you view it) down to 5 mm or less that would be good. You can experiment with card board and see how much recess depth you can get away with before you detect negative audible issues. Good luck and please let us know how things work out. J
The nice thing about this project is you can do anything you want.... How is that for avoiding the question!! Actually you have already answered your question.... mounting the Vifa from behind will put a pretty good ripple in the forward mid range responce. The combination of a bit of frequencey dependent loading and extra difraction effects will likely create two bumps in the frequency response actually. As with nearly all mid range - tweeter drivers, flush is best.
The only knock I have with the Vifa is the square frame. Great for some applications like line arrays, but requires good wood working skills to flush mount. If you can get the recess (counter bore, shallow tunnel or however you view it) down to 5 mm or less that would be good. You can experiment with card board and see how much recess depth you can get away with before you detect negative audible issues. Good luck and please let us know how things work out. J
If you are painting or veneering, here's how to flush-mount weird frames.
Rout out a countersink to the large circumference.
Put plastic wrap around the driver, gathering up excess behind w/a twist tie, or rubber band.
Push into recess, pulling slack behind.
Fill gaps with Bondo, or epoxy, or wood filler.
Smooth flush with some flat edge(bondo tool, dough scraper, credit card, you get the idea)
Let harden.
Open wrap in front, remove driver. Remove wrap.
Finish and reassemble.
Rout out a countersink to the large circumference.
Put plastic wrap around the driver, gathering up excess behind w/a twist tie, or rubber band.
Push into recess, pulling slack behind.
Fill gaps with Bondo, or epoxy, or wood filler.
Smooth flush with some flat edge(bondo tool, dough scraper, credit card, you get the idea)
Let harden.
Open wrap in front, remove driver. Remove wrap.
Finish and reassemble.
Last edited:
Seems like the hard way to do it. Much easier to make a template with a cutout to match the shape of the driver's bezel and use that to route a recess in the front of the baffle. Might have to change to a small diameter router bit to get into the corners after cutting away most of the recess. Or use a chisel to finish the corners.
Last edited:
Maybe it would be faster for you, but not for me. And I suspect others would also find it awkward and time consuming. I'm pretty confident I can make a template and route the recesses faster than I could do it with this method.
Now part of that may be just lack of experience using bondo. I suspect I would create a sizeable mess in trying to use it. And with other fillers on gaps of this size you have to worry about shrinkage and therefore do multiple applications.
And as you rightly point out, this method is only useable if you are painting or veneering the baffle. For those of us who prefer a wood finish this can't be used anyhow. So we are back to making a template, which I think is still easier and faster regardless of how you plan to finish it.
But like everything else in woodworking there are multiple ways to do things and people choose what is best for them.
Now part of that may be just lack of experience using bondo. I suspect I would create a sizeable mess in trying to use it. And with other fillers on gaps of this size you have to worry about shrinkage and therefore do multiple applications.
And as you rightly point out, this method is only useable if you are painting or veneering the baffle. For those of us who prefer a wood finish this can't be used anyhow. So we are back to making a template, which I think is still easier and faster regardless of how you plan to finish it.
But like everything else in woodworking there are multiple ways to do things and people choose what is best for them.
Last edited:
Will the new version also be intended to be stand mounted and is it's purpose to find an alternate to the 12" peerless that are difficult to locate (out of stock everywhere sadly right now) or will they be another pair of floor standers? I'm looking at building the stand mount version because of the form factor and stand mount nature.
Okay...here come some dumb questions. I've been through about half of this forum's posts and am still looking for the answers so that my questions don't waste the time of Pano or John. Here is the long and short of it:
1. Yesterday bought the components for the 17" x 29" larger stand mount version (but not the ultra version, I believe that is reserved for the floor standing variant) that employees the 15" GRS woofer. Because of COVID and things being sold out I ended up sourcing the tweeters from Madisound (sold out everywhere else), the woofers at Parts Express, and all of the crossover parts direct from Erse dropping the prices of the coils SIGNIFICANTLY. I ended up at $220 for all of the parts for both speakers despite having to pay shipping at three different companies. Even in this wore case scenario these are amazingly reasonable in cost.
2. I ended getting the air core coils in 14 gauge because it was so cheap. Was this a smart move or did I just throw something off my decreasing the resistance on the coil slightly?
3. From what I read the 15" stand mount variant uses the same xover components as the stand mount 12" peerless Manzanita.
4. Here's where my questions begin:
Question A: When I see that the things should be 4.25" wide does this include the baffle that they are glued to or are we assuming that with a .75" thick baffle if you measure from baffle to back of wing it's a total of 5"
Question B: The 17" width is the baffle and the wings should be glued on from the back, not to the sides of the baffle making them 17.75" wide?
Question C: If you do want the wings glued on the side you'd make the baffle narrower then 17" and then whatever the thickness of the wing wood is should equal out to 17" is this accurate?
Question D: Is there any recommendation for the thickness of the wood of the wings?
If I find definitive answers to questions A-D I'll fill them in as I comb through.
1. Yesterday bought the components for the 17" x 29" larger stand mount version (but not the ultra version, I believe that is reserved for the floor standing variant) that employees the 15" GRS woofer. Because of COVID and things being sold out I ended up sourcing the tweeters from Madisound (sold out everywhere else), the woofers at Parts Express, and all of the crossover parts direct from Erse dropping the prices of the coils SIGNIFICANTLY. I ended up at $220 for all of the parts for both speakers despite having to pay shipping at three different companies. Even in this wore case scenario these are amazingly reasonable in cost.
2. I ended getting the air core coils in 14 gauge because it was so cheap. Was this a smart move or did I just throw something off my decreasing the resistance on the coil slightly?
3. From what I read the 15" stand mount variant uses the same xover components as the stand mount 12" peerless Manzanita.
4. Here's where my questions begin:
Question A: When I see that the things should be 4.25" wide does this include the baffle that they are glued to or are we assuming that with a .75" thick baffle if you measure from baffle to back of wing it's a total of 5"
Question B: The 17" width is the baffle and the wings should be glued on from the back, not to the sides of the baffle making them 17.75" wide?
Question C: If you do want the wings glued on the side you'd make the baffle narrower then 17" and then whatever the thickness of the wing wood is should equal out to 17" is this accurate?
Question D: Is there any recommendation for the thickness of the wood of the wings?
If I find definitive answers to questions A-D I'll fill them in as I comb through.
Thanks Pano, you rule. So to re-iterate:
1. I've done the right thing on the crossovers. And indeed it's crazy in these sold out times to find the right items!
2. Baffle wings should be glued onto the back of the baffle and 3/4 pine or play is fine.
3. How deep should the wings be? 4.25" or is that the entire length including the 3/4" baffle?
1. I've done the right thing on the crossovers. And indeed it's crazy in these sold out times to find the right items!
2. Baffle wings should be glued onto the back of the baffle and 3/4 pine or play is fine.
3. How deep should the wings be? 4.25" or is that the entire length including the 3/4" baffle?
Here is the wood list...I'm trying to guess what you do with them below:
2 Each, ¾” X 24” X 48” Birch or Pine plywood panels. Home Depot - In my case I only need 1 of these since i'm doing the stand mount, 2 would be needed if I was doing the ultra's.
2 Each, ¾” X 6” X 96” Pine boards (Ripped in half) Home Depot - I assume for the wings....with actual board being 5.5" and ripping that makes each ripped wing piece 2.75".
3 Each, 2” X 2” X 96” Pine studs (Ripped in half) Home Depot-Are these supplements to the wings i.e. do you screw these into the wings to increase their width to 3.5" instead of 2.75"?
Baffle=.75
Ripped in Half 6 inch wide board (5.5"/2)=2.75
Ripped in half 2 inch stud (1.5"/2)=.75
Total when all glued together baffle + board + stud=4.25...is this what is supposed to be done?
1 Each, ¾” X 12” X 48” Pine board Home Depot-I'm assuming this is the base board that goes across the bottom and connects into both wings.
1 Each, ¼” X 24” X 24” Pine plywood panel (No router required) Home Depot - I am guessing this is for the vifa's to be mounted on if you want to do the 6" x 6" cutout and then place these slightly raised baffles over the holes so that they can get proper air.
Are the assumptions accurate? I still am hunting around for a 'cut sheet' somewhere.
2 Each, ¾” X 24” X 48” Birch or Pine plywood panels. Home Depot - In my case I only need 1 of these since i'm doing the stand mount, 2 would be needed if I was doing the ultra's.
2 Each, ¾” X 6” X 96” Pine boards (Ripped in half) Home Depot - I assume for the wings....with actual board being 5.5" and ripping that makes each ripped wing piece 2.75".
3 Each, 2” X 2” X 96” Pine studs (Ripped in half) Home Depot-Are these supplements to the wings i.e. do you screw these into the wings to increase their width to 3.5" instead of 2.75"?
Baffle=.75
Ripped in Half 6 inch wide board (5.5"/2)=2.75
Ripped in half 2 inch stud (1.5"/2)=.75
Total when all glued together baffle + board + stud=4.25...is this what is supposed to be done?
1 Each, ¾” X 12” X 48” Pine board Home Depot-I'm assuming this is the base board that goes across the bottom and connects into both wings.
1 Each, ¼” X 24” X 24” Pine plywood panel (No router required) Home Depot - I am guessing this is for the vifa's to be mounted on if you want to do the 6" x 6" cutout and then place these slightly raised baffles over the holes so that they can get proper air.
Are the assumptions accurate? I still am hunting around for a 'cut sheet' somewhere.
These should be dead simple to build, no cutsheet needed. I see that in post #2 it appears that I put the wings on the outside of the drawing. Can't remember how I or John actually built the first ones, it was 13 years ago! Either will work fine. In fact the original had one straight and one tapered wing. It was changed to both wings straight for simplicity.
Yes you should use the 1/4" sub-baffle in a cut out for the tweeter to allow it to breath.
Yes you should use the 1/4" sub-baffle in a cut out for the tweeter to allow it to breath.
If you want a quality result I would suggest forgetting about Home Depot and getting all of your wood materials from a real lumber dealer instead. Use Baltic Birch plywood (they don't sell it at HD) to construct a solid baffle with no voids. And don't confuse birch veneered cheap plywood (HD variety) with real Baltic Birch plywood that is BB all the way through. The differences are major..
I would also use birch hardwood for the wings instead of pine. That's particularly important if you are going to stain it rather than paint it. Stain on pine will turn out very dark and won't look good compared to the front baffle.
Last edited:
I was able to get 8 x 4 sheets of baltic birch for my past projects from Lowes.
What I pasted in was word for word (even the word home depot and pine) the part list that was in the original Manzanita thread on audiocircle that John created, at that time in I think 2011 he was focused on the lowest price and specified pine and home depot because at that time it was likely the cheapest method. I am not focused on the materials listed as my hope is to find it all in baltic birch locally, I am more focused on the cuts and their purpose as I have not found a cut list so I might be making some bad assumptions about the need for and nature of the ripped 2 x 2's.
What I pasted in was word for word (even the word home depot and pine) the part list that was in the original Manzanita thread on audiocircle that John created, at that time in I think 2011 he was focused on the lowest price and specified pine and home depot because at that time it was likely the cheapest method. I am not focused on the materials listed as my hope is to find it all in baltic birch locally, I am more focused on the cuts and their purpose as I have not found a cut list so I might be making some bad assumptions about the need for and nature of the ripped 2 x 2's.
I seriously doubt that you have ever bought TRUE Baltic Birch plywood from Lowes or from Home Depot. Neither one carries it. What you bought was a birch veneer plywood. Not at all the same thing.
You might want to reread my post again. And if you still are not clear about the difference I can try to explain it further for you.
You might want to reread my post again. And if you still are not clear about the difference I can try to explain it further for you.
OK. That's fine. But this might help when you get around to buying the materials. From another web site on the subject of BB plywood:
Q: Is there a difference between Baltic birch plywood and birch plywood?
A: Actually, there are many differences between off-the- shelf birch plywood and true Baltic birch. The first one’s easy to see: Baltic birch plywood has about twice the number of plys as birch plywood, and usually the plys are made entirely of birch. All those plys and glue layers create a high density, extremely strong and generally flat product. Baltic birch is manufactured in several thicknesses and normally in 5-ft. x 5-ft. sheets. The birch veneer plywood you find at home centers or lumberyards is really only birch on the surface. The substrate plys are made of poplar or other hardwood. The veneer strata are thicker, and with fewer ply layers there are fewer glue layers. It’s not as stiff as Baltic birch, but it’s also not as heavy. If you’re building precision jigs or templates, Baltic birch is definitely the way to go, but it costs more. For cabinet construction or shop use, birch veneer plywood will work fine.
Q: Is there a difference between Baltic birch plywood and birch plywood?
A: Actually, there are many differences between off-the- shelf birch plywood and true Baltic birch. The first one’s easy to see: Baltic birch plywood has about twice the number of plys as birch plywood, and usually the plys are made entirely of birch. All those plys and glue layers create a high density, extremely strong and generally flat product. Baltic birch is manufactured in several thicknesses and normally in 5-ft. x 5-ft. sheets. The birch veneer plywood you find at home centers or lumberyards is really only birch on the surface. The substrate plys are made of poplar or other hardwood. The veneer strata are thicker, and with fewer ply layers there are fewer glue layers. It’s not as stiff as Baltic birch, but it’s also not as heavy. If you’re building precision jigs or templates, Baltic birch is definitely the way to go, but it costs more. For cabinet construction or shop use, birch veneer plywood will work fine.